Saturday, April 09, 2011

Harley Vs Richard.

Well folks, I've mentioned this briefly earlier, but without making too big a fuss of it, as at the time, no date had been fixed in stone..

But that's just changed! A time-slot has been allocated, and both parties seem keen to come head to head..

click to enlarge

THE DEBATE

In the green corner we have Durianrider Harley, who is taking the low fat raw vegan glycogen calorie obsessed 80/10/10 stance. And in the dripping blood red corner, Neanderthal Richard Nikoley, the high fat cooked zombie flesh eating paleo stance. Both parties are no doubt already firmly entrenched in their ways, and I seriously doubt either would be at all open to change their stance, so the debate will not be about convincing themselves or each other, but hopefully should be of some benefit to others who have yet to fully decide their paths.

The debate can be viewed live (just visit realhealthdebate.com, watch the intro video, and sign up to receive a link to the event). It'll be structured, with limited times allocated to each party, with both stating their cases, and both having time following to ask and answer each other questions.

It'll take place at 6pm PST on the 14th April (which works out to midday on the 15th here on the east coast of Australia).

I was reading up on Richards Blog, and he seems pretty confident, as do most of the comments from his followers who admittedly, are not the sharpest tools in the box. No doubt similar confidence is being expressed over at 30 bananas a day..

If nothing else, I'm sure the debate will prove itself entertaining. Enjoy

14 comments:

Mr. Zed said...

"I was reading up on Richards Blog, and he seems pretty confident, as do most of the comments from his followers who admittedly, are not the sharpest tools in the box."

Yes, sometimes I get the feeling people think I'm exaggerating when I tell them what most of the so-called "paleos" are really like. Well here it is.

For example there is one guy there talking about how his brain is "atrophied". And yet it's well known that a high protein diet is what causes severe brain atrophy.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/711217

All the evidence points to alzheimer's disease being caused by prions... "an infectious agent composed of protein in a misfolded form", and possibly beta-amyloid which is also a protein. Microorganisms which gather around the brain cells and kill them. And of course the "dirty" protein comes from killed animals being eaten. (To be honest I eat lots of peanuts and worry about the protein in that sometimes, but I doubt it's anything compared to animal feed.)

It is a well-known fact based on other evidence that low sugar levels in the brain lead to brain deterioration.

I don't know how this man got it into his head that fruitarians were susceptible to brain damage. Maybe he believes that you cannot get the fats you need on a 80 10 10 diet.

But even if the fruitarian was losing more neurons than the high meat guy, it would be highly disingenuous to claim that it affected his thinking at this age. It would be at a much later age.

Also, I loved the Kangaroo video and the point he made. If I were somehow on the opposite side of the debate, I would politely laugh at the video and say "but it's different because..."... not just ridiculous ad hominem attacks like that.

Not the sharpest tools in the box? Come on Mango, it's a lunatic asylum. This is what I've been talking about.

I will look at the fruitarian and see what he's saying, but I won't learn anything from the other guy, that's obvious.

Mr. Zed said...

Sorry, use this link instead: http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.medscape.com%2Fviewarticle%2F711217&rct=j&q=brain%20%22high%20protein%22%20mice&ei=a9ufTYXDBNGahQfCo-n1BA&usg=AFQjCNFWI0dB22R9CmAgMHi-00KeacSSKw&cad=rja

Rah Sandara said...

Cool, let's see how it'll be...
Thanks for the information.
Take care.

Solveig said...

I believe that one should ALWAYS try to learn something from everybody, even though you strongly disagree with them. I always try to learn something from Mango even though we are a world apart, both geographicly speaking and in the way of living our lives.

fil said...

hey zed,

that's not definitive proof.
I think it kind of a stretch to use that study to back up your point.
they use mice with a Alzheimer disease. who knows what kind of an effect that has on how they process nutrients.
do you have a similar study with the same results but healthy mice?

other wise i could do an experiment where i feed diabetics sugar, they then die, and they i can state.. see, sugar consumption is bad for humans because it kills us. but the reasons for their death would be so much more complicated.

fil said...

and duriarider apparently hasn't made a post about the debate on his site,
i wonder why

i hope they get to address each other because the last "great health debates" where just interviews with the speakers played one after another.

no actual debating involved

fil said...

also do you have a link to the actual study?
i would like to see what kind of protein they fed the mice

thx,

fil

Mr. Zed said...

fil, I never said anything like it was "definitive proof". It is just evidence. I have no clue of where you got that from. Here's the study: http://www.molecularneurodegeneration.com/content/4/1/40 I'm not going to comment further on it, you can make up your own mind.

fil said...

thx zed,

ill check it out.

and the debate is going to be an actual debate. i cant wait lol

fil said...

oh and i got that from

"And yet it's well known that a high protein diet is what causes severe brain atrophy.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/711217"

Fruitarian Mango said...

@Mr.Zed, I feel your frustration, I see their idea of debating would ideally revolve around who has the biggest club, and not be afraid to use it. For them (the paleos) it seems the proof is in who can wield the heaviest object, and who's neck is fattest. But to be honest, part of Harley's stance is also who can run the fastest and furthest. Personally I am not overly impressed by either fete, but I understand for many, those kind of results are likely to appeal.

Personally I think this whole idea about fruitarians getting brain damage is just another snide remark meant to belittle the opponent, and boost their own egos. I witnessed first hand, that insults are about the only real argument they have.

Even ridiculing the video, as you mention, they are in my eyes ridiculing themselves. I see it rather like embarrassed laughter because they are otherwise at a loss for words.

@RahSandara If nothing else, the debate should at least prove entertaining!

@Solveig, hi! Nice to have you drop by and share some wise words!

@Fil, Im sure Harley would have mentioned the debate somewhere on the 30bananas a day website.. I don't visit the site too often myself as I'm mostly done with forums, besides I don't fully see eye to eye in his way of thinking.. He has however, definitely made mention of the debate on his own blog: durianrider.org

Mr. Zed said...

I found a good joke today about protein. The government not only push protein on people, they also call animal protein "high quality protein". When they mentioned "high quality protein" (supposedly the reason for most malnutrition in the 3rd world lol) at first I thought they meant maybe a type of really clean protein only found in fruit, or maybe it would be something unexpected. But animal protein is "high quality protein"? Maybe it's wrong to laugh at such a serious thing, but it's just so ludicrous and the exact opposite I didn't know what else to do.

Fruitarian Mango said...

@Mr.Z. Yeah, some joke.. The term I keep seeing is "superior protein".. To me it all sounds so neanderthalic. isn't it supposed to be that protein is made up of amino acids, and that the body has to break down protein into amino acids before it can actually use it.. And that there are 9 or 10 essential amino acids, all of which are found in adequate quantities in fruit.. So what the dickens is meant by superior protein or high quality protein? I don't know.. Like I said, sounds Neanderthal to me.. "Meat good".

Fruitarian Mango said...

If anyone missed the live event between Johnstone and Nikoley, and wishes to listen to it (it's just over 80 minutes in length), then head on over to:

LFRV VS PALEO.