Monday, January 21, 2008

B12 on a raw vegan diet.. (mostly fruitarian)

Last year, our friend Harley was interviewed on TV (here in Australia), some show called, I think, "What's good for you"..
Harley enjoying a durian in Thailand.
Now, Harley's this guy who is, to say the least.. ultra fit..

Kveta and I bumped into him purely by chance in Thailand,  in 2006.. He had biked up much of the distance from Singapore..

Harley's goal is to beat the world record for fastest time around Australia on his bike (that's a push bike/bicycle not a motor powered vehicle).. On pretty much mostly just fruit..

Anyhow, back to the TV thing.. for the show, he had some blood tested, and they found his B12 to be the lowest they had ever recorded..

Harley asked them what the healthy level of B12 for a raw vegan should be.. - the nutritionist had no answer, and was even surprised that he asked such a question.. Of course, none of this ever came to air on the show, as much of what was edited and shown was done so in order to favour the traditional omnivorous diet.. (sometimes he would be asked a question wearing one t-shirt, and answer it wearing another, showing just how heavily edited his interview was)..

He even offered the filming crew to follow him on a cycle tour across australia, and told them that he believed he could beat anybody who would dare to challenge him, any cyclist, with whatever level of B12 they might have.. (A challenge that I have no doubt he was up for!) - They never took him up on his offer..

Durian seedsOK, so clearly, I'm no scientist, nor narrow minded, brainwashed, symptom bashing doctor, far from it, but I can imagine, that a truly healthy person possibly does not need highly elevated levels of B12 in their blood..  I have heard that vitamin B12 is apparently used to break down proteins that make their way into the blood stream, which is common after eating flesh foods and dairy, and possibly the case with corrupted cooked foods too..

On a fruitarian or even mostly fruitarian diet, like Harley, protein is not eaten.. only amino acids, so B12 has nothing to break down in the blood, so is it possible that it may not even be needed at all?

Also according to wikipedia, B12 is used by the body during the process of rearranging hydrogen atoms in fats - Which is again in my view something to do with eating trans-fats - hydrogenated fats, raw vegans and fruitarians don't eat margarines or the like, so may not need B12 in their blood for the repair work..

Could it be, that the statistical values of the average population do nothing more than prove just show how sick the average population is?

I know I had my own blood analyzed a good 17 or 18 years ago.. My B12 was lower than the doctor had seen at the time, and she was concerned for me because of that.. Since then I have done nothing to attempt to correct that "anomaly", rather I have trusted more in my path, and that which I believed to be correct, appears indeed to be so..

Despite having no apparent B12 source, I have never suffered any of the classic B12 deficiency symptoms.. My mind and body function well still, with my ability to learn and climb trees ever present. I myself have clocked up over 7000 kms on my pushbike, living for one year on the road in Europe, (my bike is currently in Northern New South Wales, so I'm out of practise at the moment, but look forward to living somewhere where I can enjoy the pleasure of biking again..) .. Is it any wonder that I show so little faith in nutritional science and it's follies??

Well, if you'ld like to read more about Harley, then look him up with google: Harley Johnstone..

Me and Harley enjoying durian.. Kveta took the photo..

See also my post: B12 and Fruitarianism.

PS See also: B12 and Fruitarianism

Blogged with Flock


Anonymous said...

hey mango. big fan of the site. i just wanted to let you know you are absolutely correct about B12. ive done some brief studies about the B vitamins. if someone is on a cooked omniverous diet B12 is essential as it can help break down other nutrients that are not being met properly. on a raw vegan/or fruitarian diet the b1,B2,B6..and so forth are met (epecially juiced). because these vitamins are met b12 simply is not needed AT ALL! omnivores lack all the other B vitamins which make it dangerous. B12 i believe is a shadow vitamin. one in which does not show in the blod but occurs naturally in our deep tissues or bones or muscles. if we lacked b1,b2,b6 then we would be at risk of heart disease and liver dysfunction. b12 is necessary to keep meat eaters alive. but when we have met the requirements of our essential B's then we do not require the support of B12. doctors will fail to recognize this as they are narrow minded. naturopathy is so popular that most meat eating doctor loving people are switching over. the reason is that doctors fail to treat anyone. i found out i have liver damage that is hereditary. my doctor failed to look into it. i could have died. instead im high fruit raw vegan and im so much better. i no longer have a doctor and refuse to listen to their 'bullshit' im my own doctor. and inside i KNOW b12 means nothing for us. its a shame .. some people never catch on. instead we should focus less on numbers of vitamin/minerals in our blood and more on the functioning of our organs. because those are what determine our health.

thanks for listening mango.

Kiwi ♥

Jackie said...

Hi Mango, as a Vegan (around 60% raw) I take B12 daily. I take one 1000ug (1gram) sublingual pill. I use Solgar as I know it is from a veggie source. On a raw vegan diet I am sure not so much would be required.

The fact most Vegan doctors, naturopaths and homeopaths mention permanent brain damage without it was enough for me :)

We don't have the large variety of organic fruit and veg available overseas so I am not sure either what nutrition level my juices actually are as some are organic and some are not.

Fruitarian Mango said...

Hi Kiwi,
thanks for your comment! I'm glad that others can see the folly of conventional doctoring and pseudo nutritional science!

Hi Jackie!
well.. Personally I would call that "..risk of permanent brain damage.." thing misinformed scaremongering.. I honestly believe they are just not seeing the whole picture..I'm not saying that I do either, but I do believe the real issue is not about lacking B12, but with the body being sick in other ways.. Thus maybe those still eating cooked foods, flesh foods and otherwise degenerative food stuffs, might appear to benefit from suppliments, but on a 100% raw fruit diet, or close, I think things are different..

But don't take my word for it.


MauricioZ said...

Hi Mango!
Hey what a grate website! I am going raw... and I think it will help me a lot to read here...

I was wondering... what is that fruit you and your friend are eating? is it bread fruit? or what?

By the way... I read about the deficiency of B12 and brain... stuff... but actually since I became vegan... (now in the raw path) my brain is working a lot better... it is like my mind is so clear and I can concentrate a lot better (some years ago... when I was an omnivore I had some kinds of ADD).

Now I feel and I know! I am a lot more intelligent and clear minded... it is like my brain have detoxed, and now it can function a lot better.

Cool.. thanks a lot! and... what's that fruit???
Hasta la vista...!

Fruitarian Mango said...

Hi MauricioZ,
Thanks for you Feedback..

The fruit is a durian.. Sometimes known as the king of fruits.. It has a unique tasting sweet and creamy flesh, and a very powerful fragrant odour that is pleasing to the senses if one is clean internally, or a very disgusting smell if one is in a toxic state... :)


Anonymous said...

Nice site. It's my first time in this site. Sorry for my bad English.
I am a vegan and I want to become fruitarian. The B12 is a very frequent question in veganism.
I found a useful article written by an expert. This is the link:

It's a little long but I just want to say that you are absolutely right about B12.

Chris The Protein Myth said...

I really like this. As an avid fitness trainer and eleven year raw foodist I rely on strength, endurance and body composition muscle mass, reaction time, balance and mental clarity to diagnose my health. I like that Harley and Mango are immune to the "doctor-prescribed" way of thinking about "deficiencies" and "remedies" based on nothing but "lockstep" thinking. I mean, if a person does not exhibit the symptoms then he does not have the "dis-ease", right? Ps I am honored to have found this blogsite.

Unknown said...

Hey, just checked out your website and got a little concerned about this blog. I find it interesting how people are speculating instead of actually researching the facts available. Assuming that people would lie about the need for B12 (or anything else) without checking out the information is not very smart. I am a 100% raw food vegan that also happens to have a major in biochemistry and is a certified nutritionist and without writing too long and tedious just wanted to say that yes, everyone needs B12 or you can develop serious deficiency symptoms that can cause permanent damage to your body. These symptoms often take a long time to develop, and that is why people can go for years without showing any. If you are interested, look at this page: It is very comprehensible. Good luck to y'all

Fruitarian Mango said...

hei hei tove,
When all the facts are clearly not yet fully available, everyone that theorises about the ones that are, is, in my opinion, speculating. I never really meant to assume people/doctors/scientists have lied about what they know, but merely supposed that since they themselves do not have all the facts, their conclusions could possibly be erroneous. I'm certainly not saying that this is the case with yourself, but sometimes having university diplomas makes one tend to be biased in ones own way, bringing with it a sometimes refusal to see beyond what one has been taught. Neither you nor I truly know the precise workings of the body, and I would hazard a guess that nutritional science is still very very much in it's infancy, with new factors being constantly discovered that make old knowledge erroneous. I've stated this previously, but will never-the-less reiterate, as far as I am aware, all statistical data concerning body chemistries and blood analysis has been derived from people that are gradually polluting their internals through eating nonfoods, and thus, how we should truly be as fully healthy individuals is still very much unknown.

Taking B12 as an example, I have read many times that it can be stored within ones body, and gradually depleted, and yet, the amount of time for that depletion to occur, although variable, apparently appears to be from a rough 4 years, to a maximum of 8 or 9. I have never seen statements that contradict those estimates. And yet, I myself, and my partner too, have both gone at least twice that length of time without taking any apparent B12 containing foods.. This leads me to believe that 1. either we are freaks and don't need any, 2. We are obtaining it from sources unknown.. unwashed fruit perhaps(?), or 3. our bodies when functioning healthily, have an innate ability to create their own B12 sources.

I have no idea which hypothesis is correct, and frankly don't really care.

Unknown said...

Hey mango!

I myself am probably biased by modern science too, and thus I do kind of feel like taking B12. However I find it very interesting to see that you have actually gone without B12 for such long time! Although I don't really believe our body can make B12 itself, I have on other occasions read about the unwashed food theory.

Very interesting :) Even though I don't really feel like going raw, I respect your lifestyle. I guess I've found a new interesting blog to follow :)

Fruitarian Mango said...

hi Alex.. welcome to my humble domain. Modern science has a knack of making people narrow minded, that's why I try and steer clear of it. I don't know whether or not the body can manufacture it's own B12 either.. I don't know much at all really.. perhaps I am just getting it from unwashed food sources, I neither really know nor care. I do know that to the best of my knowledge, I have never experienced any B12 deficiency symptoms. Glad you are finding me blaahing interesting!

SKY said...

Hi Mango,
What an enlightening blog you have! Love how you describe durian, the King of Fruits where I live. Like you, I don't care for supplements. It's sad how 'modern folk' have been brainwashed to believe that they can get 'better' nourishment out of some synthetic substance from inside a bottle than they actually can from whole foods naturally produced by mother earth. So much so that they suspect the goodness of real foods and trust in fake stuff instead. When people ask me where I get enough protein to build muscle, I just show them my biceps.
So glad to have found you Mango.
Cheers, sky :)

Crystal Edwards said...

Harley is awesome! Check out his channel on youtube called 'Durianriders'. He's got some great vids. Good article, too, Mango. :)
Crystal x

Smood said...

Hey Mango. Very cool site. Anyway I hate to break up your party and all, but I invite you to actually do some reading about what Vit. B12 actually is and what it does.

I will try to summarize it for you briefly. B12 is basically essential for life since it is needed for form 1 of the building blocks of DNA called Thymine. It does this through regeneration of another molecule called folate which forms Thymine from another compound called Uracil (you are welcome to research all of what I'm saying).

Anyhow without these molecules you will get a profound anemia (low red blood cells) and B12 is also needed in generating molecules that protect our nervous system and will lead to something called subacute combined degeneration. When that sets in you can look forward to extreme disability and paralysis.

Now my theory as to why you guys are still healthy after not eating it for 10+ years is you may now and then eat raw fruit thats a bit dirty. The soil contains bacteria that generate B12 and thus you probably are getting some. So next time you grab a Mango, makes sure its slightly dirty (although you could just take a supplement and avoid the possible bacterial infection from the dirt).

As for my sources for all this... lets just say I have some formal training in biology/biochemisty. :)

Unknown said...

B12 Is an interesting one.

Its needed at the moment as life is somewhat toxic. The air, the water, the food etc. In an ideal world no it wouldn't be as necessary, but until you get yourself that cleansed and that free of pollution in your daily life/body, get some in your system to assist it.

Baby steps people :) - listen to your own body the most.

Awake2Health said...

Can u send me your website! Do u have a blog? Thks

Amy Cooper said...

I found it when I was looking for a different sort of information but I am very interested in the article, It is nice to read such kind of good posts I like your work keep it up!canadian vitamin shop

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

I recently started a vegan diet. I am researching B12 and could not find the wiki article you mentioned about the hydrogen ions rearranging in fat for B12 to be used. Where would I find it? Thank you.